The Only Hudson River Derby Explainer You’ll Ever Need, Maybe

So! Tell me of this Hudson River Derby.

It’s the name for soccer games played between the New York Red Bulls and New York City FC. The Red Bulls entered the league as the MetroStars in 1996, and became the Red Bulls in 2006. New York City FC played their first season in 2015.

How many of these derbies are there?

Three regular-season matches. This year, the two teams also faced off in the US Open Cup. They haven’t played each other in the playoffs yet, but it seems decidedly likely that it’ll happen before too long.

Last year, both teams were eliminated by Canadian opponents in the Eastern Conference semi-finals. One can imagine that MLS would have relished the opportunity for an all-New York conference final. One can imagine indeed.

Over the last two years, both the Red Bulls and NYCFC have had strong regular seasons. Have the derby results reflected that?

Not really. The Red Bulls won all three matchups in 2015. In 2016, the Red Bulls won two of three. This year, each has won one, with NYCFC having beaten the Red Bulls at Red Bull Arena for the first time. There are still two derbies to do: one at Yankee Stadium and one at Red Bull Arena.

Are there any other derbies for New York teams?

Matchups between the Red Bulls and the Cosmos have been dubbed the Gotham Derby, and matches between the Cosmos and NYCFC are known as the East River Derby. Though those tend to happen less than once a year, depending on how far the Cosmos advance in the US Open Cup. This year the Cosmos were eliminated before they had the opportunity to face any MLS teams, so…yeah.

So why do these two teams’ fanbases have such heated feelings about each other?

Many Red Bulls supporters, myself included, feel that NYCFC has gotten special treatment from the league, including the fact that they’ve been one of the only expansion teams to join MLS in recent years without a plan in place for a soccer-specific stadium.

On the other side of things, many NYCFC supporters enjoy haranguing Red Bulls supporters about the fact that the Red Bulls play in New Jersey, and that this therefore makes the Red Bulls invalid as a New York team. The fact that the scoreboards at Yankee Stadium tend to abbreviate the Red Bulls as “RB”–as opposed to “RBNY” or “NYRB” is what’s known as “some next-level trolling.”

Most arguments generally boil down to:

“Your team plays in New Jersey!”

“Fuck you! Your team plays in a baseball stadium.”

“It is better to rule in hell than serve in heaven!”

“That makes no sense; why are you quoting Milton right now?”

“He’s talking about Satan. Like the Devil. Like the New Jersey Devils. Who are also a team in New Jersey.”

“Fuck off. Enjoy your baseball stadium.”

(And repeat, ad infinitum.)

…but the Red Bulls do play in New Jersey.

Yeah, they do. So do the NFL’s Giants and Jets, and no one’s questioning their validity as New York teams. The Giants have been in the Meadowlands since 1976–in other words, longer than any player on either the New York Red Bulls or NYCFC has been alive. In terms of MLS teams, the Red Bulls are far from the only team to play in the metropolitan area of the city that gives the team its name. Within MLS, the same is true for the Chicago Fire (Bridgeview, IL), Philadelphia Union (Chester, PA), and Real Salt Lake (Sandy, UT).

Assumably, if the New York Rangers or the Yankees had moved to New Jersey in previous decades, as was rumored, they’d have kept their names as well. The number of professional sports teams named for states rather than cities is not exactly high: one in MLS, three in the NFL, two in the NBA, and four in the NHL.

(There’s also the fact that the New England Patriots and New England Revolution doubled down and named themselves after an entire region of the country, but that’s always struck me as a little greedy, if we’re being totally honest here.)

NYCFC’s home field is Yankee Stadium. The Cosmos play at MCU Park. What’s the deal with soccer teams playing in baseball stadiums in New York?

Real estate, basically. In the case of the Cosmos, it makes sense: their facility at Hofstra was a nightmare for all involved, and they were perennially a second-tier tenant to the school’s lacrosse team. And unlike both Red Bull Arena and Yankee Stadium, there wasn’t really an easy public transit option. With MCU Park, there is.

At this point, NYCFC in in a quandary–they’s getting solid attendance at Yankee Stadium, but if they move the team to a stadium too far away, they’re going to lose some people along the way. Finding a space close to Yankee Stadium with a similarly good amount of public transportation around it is not exactly going to be easy.

At the same time, New York City is in the middle of a real estate boom that shows no signs of abating. So even if NYCFC can find a location for a stadium, it’s very likely that they’re going to run into some sort of public outcry, which already killed a proposed stadium share with Columbia University’s football team. Hypothetically, if they’re able to host 1.5 events per week in this theoretical stadium between March 1 and December 1 of a given year, that’s still only around 60 events per year.

Does the Red Bulls’ history before the opening of Red Bull Arena factor into this at all?

Getting from New York to the Meadowlands during the time when the Red Bulls and (before them) the MetroStars played there was not easy–public transit wasn’t really an option at that time. Then again, by the end of the waking nightmare that was the Red Bulls’ 2009 season, it’s not like many people were coming from anywhere to see the team play.

So shouldn’t the opening of Red Bull Arena, located next to a PATH station, have fixed that?

Kind of. Here’s the thing–I believe that it was undercut somewhat by the theoretical return of the New York Cosmos.

But Red Bull Arena opened in 2010. The Cosmos didn’t join the NASL until 2013. You’re making excuses.

I’m really not.

Explain.

Gladly. After a dreadful 2009 season, the Red Bulls moved to the brand-new Red Bull Arena for the 2010 season, and added club legend Thierry Henry during that summer’s transfer window. Not long afterwards, the Cosmos announced, in a high-profile way, that they were making a comeback. All of which sounded great on paper–and all of which might’ve caused a soccer fan who was unsure about venturing to see the Red Bulls to wait for the revived Cosmos to play their first game.

When they did, it was in a college lacrosse stadium on Long Island, and for a lower-division league. But by the spring of 2013, NYCFC had been announced–again, undercutting the Red Bulls somewhat. Under other circumstances, the fact that the Red Bulls were having one of their best seasons as a club might have gotten more people into seats.

Admittedly, the Red Bulls’ reluctance to advertise hasn’t exactly helped: the last thing I can remember seeing for the team anywhere near my apartment were a few ads spotlighting Tim Cahill following the 2014 Word Cup–at a time when Cahill was no longer getting regular minutes for the club.

Tim Cahill’s now playing for a team that shares ownership with NYCFC, right?

Yes. After a stint in China, he’s now playing for Melbourne City FC in the A-League.

Is that weird?

I don’t want to talk about it.

It’s totally weird, right?

…yes.

Is there anything else that you find odd about this rivalry?

Both Red Bull GmbH and City Football Group have a habit of buying teams and renaming or rebranding them. And while both the Red Bulls and NYCFC have assembled solid MLS teams, there’s a perennial concern that both organizations are focusing the bulk of their attention on their teams in the UEFA Champions League. All of which means that, for being bitter rivals, the two teams have more in common than either fanbase might want to admit.

It’s kind of like the scene in Raising Arizona where Nicolas Cage and Randall “Tex” Cobb are fighting to the death and suddenly realize that they both have the same woodpecker tattoo.

In that scenario, which team is Nicolas Cage and which one is Randall “Tex” Cobb?

Only Don Garber knows for sure.